[alsa-devel] DMARC & gmail & cirrus.com
Hi all,
today, all gmail users were unsubscribed from the mailing list, because we have users who sends e-mails from domains with the DMARC policy reject (like cirrus.com). The mailman counts those bounces and unsubscribe users who do not receive those e-mails. The nice explanation is here:
https://www.linuxchix.org/content/mailing-list-changes
I can enable the "Replace the From: header address" in the mailman config to "Munge From" like in the above example, but it will mean that From: will be altered (see the explanation).
Another option is to disable the bounce check in mailman, but it will cause that the "dead" subscribers are not detected anymore.
Any opinions on this?
Jaroslav
SMTP error:
(host alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[173.194.73.26] said: 550-5.7.26 Unauthenticated email from cirrus.com is not accepted due to domain's 550-5.7.26 DMARC policy. Please contact the administrator of cirrus.com domain 550-5.7.26 if this was a legitimate mail. Please visit 550-5.7.26 https://support.google.com/mail/answer/2451690 to learn about the 450 4.7.26 DMARC initiative. m14si10079981ljg.84 - gsmtp (in reply to end of DATA command))
DMARC settings for cirrus.com:
v=DMARC1; p=reject; fo=1;rua=mailto:dmarc_rua@emaildefense.proofpoint.com;ruf=mailto:dmarc_ruf@emaildefense.proofpoint.com
On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 09:46:22 +0100, Jaroslav Kysela wrote:
Hi all,
today, all gmail users were unsubscribed from the mailing list, because we have users who sends e-mails from domains with the DMARC policy reject (like cirrus.com). The mailman counts those bounces and unsubscribe users who do not receive those e-mails. The nice explanation is here:
https://www.linuxchix.org/content/mailing-list-changes
I can enable the "Replace the From: header address" in the mailman config to "Munge From" like in the above example, but it will mean that From: will be altered (see the explanation).
Another option is to disable the bounce check in mailman, but it will cause that the "dead" subscribers are not detected anymore.
Any opinions on this?
If the number of such dead subscribers isn't too rapidly growing, the manual bounce check and unsubscribing would work?
Takashi
JaroslavSMTP error:
(host alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[173.194.73.26] said: 550-5.7.26 Unauthenticated email from cirrus.com is not accepted due to domain's 550-5.7.26 DMARC policy. Please contact the administrator of cirrus.com domain 550-5.7.26 if this was a legitimate mail. Please visit 550-5.7.26 https://support.google.com/mail/answer/2451690 to learn about the 450 4.7.26 DMARC initiative. m14si10079981ljg.84 - gsmtp (in reply to end of DATA command))
DMARC settings for cirrus.com:
v=DMARC1; p=reject; fo=1;rua=mailto:dmarc_rua@emaildefense.proofpoint.com;ruf=mailto:dmarc_ruf@emaildefense.proofpoint.com
-- Jaroslav Kysela perex@perex.cz Linux Sound Maintainer; ALSA Project; Red Hat, Inc. _______________________________________________ Alsa-devel mailing list Alsa-devel@alsa-project.org https://mailman.alsa-project.org/mailman/listinfo/alsa-devel
On 2/17/20 9:46 AM, Jaroslav Kysela wrote:
Hi all,
today, all gmail users were unsubscribed from the mailing list, because we have users who sends e-mails from domains with the DMARC policy reject (like cirrus.com). The mailman counts those bounces and unsubscribe users who do not receive those e-mails. The nice explanation is here:
https://www.linuxchix.org/content/mailing-list-changes
I can enable the "Replace the From: header address" in the mailman config to "Munge From" like in the above example, but it will mean that From: will be altered (see the explanation).
Another option is to disable the bounce check in mailman, but it will cause that the "dead" subscribers are not detected anymore.
Any opinions on this?
Jaroslav
The way I understand it option 2 would also mean that nobody at a service provider that implements DMARC checks on the receiver side would receive mail sent to the list by people using a service provider that has a reject policy for outgoing mails. E.g. in your example while gmail users would not be unsubscribed from the mailing-list, but they still wouldn't receive the mails sent from cirrus.com. Which kind of makes the mailinglist useless.
The way I understand the option to replace the From: header is that it will only happen for those that have a reject policy, for everybody else nothing changes. So if the mailinglist is supposed to stay useful for those with a reject policy the only option is to rewrite the from header for them.
- Lars
On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 10:33:55AM +0100, Lars-Peter Clausen wrote:
On 2/17/20 9:46 AM, Jaroslav Kysela wrote:
I can enable the "Replace the From: header address" in the mailman config to "Munge From" like in the above example, but it will mean that From: will be altered (see the explanation).
The way I understand the option to replace the From: header is that it will only happen for those that have a reject policy, for everybody else nothing changes. So if the mailinglist is supposed to stay useful for those with a reject policy the only option is to rewrite the from header for them.
Rewriting seems like the best option really, I doubt there is much chance of me managing to get the IS guys to change cirrus.com's DMARC policy and I guess we might not be the only people who cause trouble on this front.
Thanks, Charles
Hi,
On 17/02/2020 13.35, Charles Keepax wrote:
On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 10:33:55AM +0100, Lars-Peter Clausen wrote:
On 2/17/20 9:46 AM, Jaroslav Kysela wrote:
I can enable the "Replace the From: header address" in the mailman config to "Munge From" like in the above example, but it will mean that From: will be altered (see the explanation).
The way I understand the option to replace the From: header is that it will only happen for those that have a reject policy, for everybody else nothing changes. So if the mailinglist is supposed to stay useful for those with a reject policy the only option is to rewrite the from header for them.
Rewriting seems like the best option really, I doubt there is much chance of me managing to get the IS guys to change cirrus.com's DMARC policy and I guess we might not be the only people who cause trouble on this front.
ti.com also had issues caused by DMARC policy. We have extensively nagged our IT department over this and it got resolved? Probably. Not sure, but I have not been unsubscribed lately from lists and no complaints on people not receiving my mails... it could be that they do not indeed receive the mails which makes them happy ;)
Thanks, Charles _______________________________________________ Alsa-devel mailing list Alsa-devel@alsa-project.org https://mailman.alsa-project.org/mailman/listinfo/alsa-devel
- Péter
Texas Instruments Finland Oy, Porkkalankatu 22, 00180 Helsinki. Y-tunnus/Business ID: 0615521-4. Kotipaikka/Domicile: Helsinki
On 2/17/20 12:56 PM, Peter Ujfalusi wrote:
Hi,
On 17/02/2020 13.35, Charles Keepax wrote:
On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 10:33:55AM +0100, Lars-Peter Clausen wrote:
On 2/17/20 9:46 AM, Jaroslav Kysela wrote:
I can enable the "Replace the From: header address" in the mailman config to "Munge From" like in the above example, but it will mean that From: will be altered (see the explanation).
The way I understand the option to replace the From: header is that it will only happen for those that have a reject policy, for everybody else nothing changes. So if the mailinglist is supposed to stay useful for those with a reject policy the only option is to rewrite the from header for them.
Rewriting seems like the best option really, I doubt there is much chance of me managing to get the IS guys to change cirrus.com's DMARC policy and I guess we might not be the only people who cause trouble on this front.
ti.com also had issues caused by DMARC policy. We have extensively nagged our IT department over this and it got resolved? Probably. Not sure, but I have not been unsubscribed lately from lists and no complaints on people not receiving my mails... it could be that they do not indeed receive the mails which makes them happy ;)
Its not that you get unsubscribed, but everybody else who is rejecting your mails ;)
_dmarc.ti.com. 3600 IN TXT "v=DMARC1;p=quarantine;sp=none;rua=mailto:dmarc-aggr@ti.com;ruf=mailto:dmarc-for@ti.com;fo=0"
The p=quarantine means that your messages forwarded by the ALSA mailinglist will probably go to spam for people using gmail.
Some other mailinglists btw don't have this problem, since they forward the signed content of the mail unmodified. But since alsa modifies the subject as well as adding the info footer the original signature is no longer valid.
- Lars
Dne 17. 02. 20 v 13:17 Lars-Peter Clausen napsal(a):
On 2/17/20 12:56 PM, Peter Ujfalusi wrote:
Hi,
On 17/02/2020 13.35, Charles Keepax wrote:
On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 10:33:55AM +0100, Lars-Peter Clausen wrote:
On 2/17/20 9:46 AM, Jaroslav Kysela wrote:
I can enable the "Replace the From: header address" in the mailman config to "Munge From" like in the above example, but it will mean that From: will be altered (see the explanation).
The way I understand the option to replace the From: header is that it will only happen for those that have a reject policy, for everybody else nothing changes. So if the mailinglist is supposed to stay useful for those with a reject policy the only option is to rewrite the from header for them.
Rewriting seems like the best option really, I doubt there is much chance of me managing to get the IS guys to change cirrus.com's DMARC policy and I guess we might not be the only people who cause trouble on this front.
ti.com also had issues caused by DMARC policy. We have extensively nagged our IT department over this and it got resolved? Probably. Not sure, but I have not been unsubscribed lately from lists and no complaints on people not receiving my mails... it could be that they do not indeed receive the mails which makes them happy ;)
Its not that you get unsubscribed, but everybody else who is rejecting your mails ;)
_dmarc.ti.com. 3600 IN TXT "v=DMARC1;p=quarantine;sp=none;rua=mailto:dmarc-aggr@ti.com;ruf=mailto:dmarc-for@ti.com;fo=0"
The p=quarantine means that your messages forwarded by the ALSA mailinglist will probably go to spam for people using gmail.
Some other mailinglists btw don't have this problem, since they forward the signed content of the mail unmodified. But since alsa modifies the subject as well as adding the info footer the original signature is no longer valid.
I added a filter for the gmail DMARC bounces (so mailman will not receive them) and increased the unsubscribe threshold now. But as you noted, it does not resolve the issue with the undelivered e-mails from the mailing list because the DMARC policy is too strong on the sender's side.
I can remove the subject prefix and footer but are you all ok with this? I only hope that mailman will not do other things with message body to break the signature. It seems that LKML also does not alter the message contents.
Jaroslav
participants (5)
-
Charles Keepax -
Jaroslav Kysela -
Lars-Peter Clausen -
Peter Ujfalusi -
Takashi Iwai