Re: [alsa-devel] CONFIG_SND_DEBUG
On 06/05/2013 12:53 PM, Andy Whitcroft wrote:
On Wed, Jun 05, 2013 at 09:47:30AM +0200, David Henningsson wrote:
On Wed, 2013-06-05 at 08:54 +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote:
At Tue, 04 Jun 2013 23:52:01 -0700, Joe Perches wrote: > On Wed, 2013-06-05 at 08:32 +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote: >> Yes. These are snd_printd() just to be conditionally built in. >> But in most cases it's rather useful to print them (as most distros >> set CONFIG_SND_DEBUG=y). > Ubuntu doesn't, I believe Fedora doesn't. Then they should have done so :)
But they don't, so what distros do?
RedHat (including Fedora) and SUSE do at least.
Mandriva does too. (still looking around for others)
We can ask Ubuntu to enable CONFIG_SND_DEBUG. (cc'd Andy Whitcroft, Leann Ogasawara and David Henningsson)
Maybe there are others Canonical folk that should be cc'd?
Adding kernel team mailing list to CC.
Andy/Leann - apparently CONFIG_SND_DEBUG is on by default from upstream, and we explicitly disable it. Is there any reason why we do that?
config SND_DEBUG bool "Debug" help Say Y here to enable ALSA debug code.
It is off by default in upstream, and the really helpful description would cirtainly tend to lead to it being disabled. But if it is helpful to your debugging efforts David then I suspect we can enable it in Saucy and see what happens.
Okay, so then the ball is back in Takashi's area - if we're recommended to turn CONFIG_SND_DEBUG on, why is it off by default in the upstream Linux kernel?
At Wed, 05 Jun 2013 13:38:55 +0200, David Henningsson wrote:
On 06/05/2013 12:53 PM, Andy Whitcroft wrote:
On Wed, Jun 05, 2013 at 09:47:30AM +0200, David Henningsson wrote:
On Wed, 2013-06-05 at 08:54 +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote: > At Tue, 04 Jun 2013 23:52:01 -0700, Joe Perches wrote: >> On Wed, 2013-06-05 at 08:32 +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote: >>> Yes. These are snd_printd() just to be conditionally built in. >>> But in most cases it's rather useful to print them (as most distros >>> set CONFIG_SND_DEBUG=y). >> Ubuntu doesn't, I believe Fedora doesn't. > Then they should have done so :) But they don't, so what distros do?
RedHat (including Fedora) and SUSE do at least.
Mandriva does too. (still looking around for others)
We can ask Ubuntu to enable CONFIG_SND_DEBUG. (cc'd Andy Whitcroft, Leann Ogasawara and David Henningsson)
Maybe there are others Canonical folk that should be cc'd?
Adding kernel team mailing list to CC.
Andy/Leann - apparently CONFIG_SND_DEBUG is on by default from upstream, and we explicitly disable it. Is there any reason why we do that?
config SND_DEBUG bool "Debug" help Say Y here to enable ALSA debug code.
It is off by default in upstream, and the really helpful description would cirtainly tend to lead to it being disabled. But if it is helpful to your debugging efforts David then I suspect we can enable it in Saucy and see what happens.
Okay, so then the ball is back in Takashi's area - if we're recommended to turn CONFIG_SND_DEBUG on, why is it off by default in the upstream Linux kernel?
It's not off as default. Simply there is no default, just like most of other options.
As already mentioned, if the device is known to work well with the kernel, there is no reason to set it on. Then it'll saves the memory and code space. That is, for custom kernels, it's good to be off. But for generic kernels like distro kernel, it'd be better to take a safer side with more safety checks that is built in by that option.
Takashi
On Wed, 5 Jun 2013, Takashi Iwai wrote:
Andy/Leann - apparently CONFIG_SND_DEBUG is on by default from upstream, and we explicitly disable it. Is there any reason why we do that?
config SND_DEBUG bool "Debug" help Say Y here to enable ALSA debug code.
It is off by default in upstream, and the really helpful description would cirtainly tend to lead to it being disabled. But if it is helpful to your debugging efforts David then I suspect we can enable it in Saucy and see what happens.
Okay, so then the ball is back in Takashi's area - if we're recommended to turn CONFIG_SND_DEBUG on, why is it off by default in the upstream Linux kernel?
It's not off as default. Simply there is no default, just like most of other options.
As already mentioned, if the device is known to work well with the kernel, there is no reason to set it on. Then it'll saves the memory and code space. That is, for custom kernels, it's good to be off. But for generic kernels like distro kernel, it'd be better to take a safer side with more safety checks that is built in by that option.
Given this description, the symbol's name is very misleading. Instead of being called CONFIG_SND_DEBUG, it should be called CONFIG_SND_SAFETY_CHECKS or something like that.
IMO, distributions are completely justified in turning off any symbol which is named (and described in the help text!) as being used for debugging only.
Alan Stern
At Wed, 5 Jun 2013 10:11:12 -0400 (EDT), Alan Stern wrote:
On Wed, 5 Jun 2013, Takashi Iwai wrote:
Andy/Leann - apparently CONFIG_SND_DEBUG is on by default from upstream, and we explicitly disable it. Is there any reason why we do that?
config SND_DEBUG bool "Debug" help Say Y here to enable ALSA debug code.
It is off by default in upstream, and the really helpful description would cirtainly tend to lead to it being disabled. But if it is helpful to your debugging efforts David then I suspect we can enable it in Saucy and see what happens.
Okay, so then the ball is back in Takashi's area - if we're recommended to turn CONFIG_SND_DEBUG on, why is it off by default in the upstream Linux kernel?
It's not off as default. Simply there is no default, just like most of other options.
As already mentioned, if the device is known to work well with the kernel, there is no reason to set it on. Then it'll saves the memory and code space. That is, for custom kernels, it's good to be off. But for generic kernels like distro kernel, it'd be better to take a safer side with more safety checks that is built in by that option.
Given this description, the symbol's name is very misleading. Instead of being called CONFIG_SND_DEBUG, it should be called CONFIG_SND_SAFETY_CHECKS or something like that.
Very true. Actually this option has multiple implicit meanings. It also enables some debug things, of course, too.
IMO, distributions are completely justified in turning off any symbol which is named (and described in the help text!) as being used for debugging only.
Heh, I don't blame distros but just recommend to turn it on :)
Anyway, since 3.10, safety checks with snd_BUG_ON() have been already enabled even without CONFIG_SND_DEBUG. But this won't give an error message via WARN() but simply returns the error when built CONFIG_SND_DEBUG, so it won't help for debugging much, as expected.
And, Alan, please don't work on a patch to correct Kconfig text yet. I see on my crystalball that you'd send a patch in this very minute ;)
We'll need to work on the debug print things, so the whole kconfig options need revisited. Let's sort out what to be changed for messages, split the sanity check codes and debug codes, and then go on fixing/improving Kconfig appropriately.
thanks,
Takashi
On Wed, 5 Jun 2013, Takashi Iwai wrote:
At Wed, 5 Jun 2013 10:11:12 -0400 (EDT), Alan Stern wrote:
On Wed, 5 Jun 2013, Takashi Iwai wrote:
Andy/Leann - apparently CONFIG_SND_DEBUG is on by default from upstream, and we explicitly disable it. Is there any reason why we do that?
config SND_DEBUG bool "Debug" help Say Y here to enable ALSA debug code.
It is off by default in upstream, and the really helpful description would cirtainly tend to lead to it being disabled. But if it is helpful to your debugging efforts David then I suspect we can enable it in Saucy and see what happens.
Okay, so then the ball is back in Takashi's area - if we're recommended to turn CONFIG_SND_DEBUG on, why is it off by default in the upstream Linux kernel?
It's not off as default. Simply there is no default, just like most of other options.
As already mentioned, if the device is known to work well with the kernel, there is no reason to set it on. Then it'll saves the memory and code space. That is, for custom kernels, it's good to be off. But for generic kernels like distro kernel, it'd be better to take a safer side with more safety checks that is built in by that option.
Given this description, the symbol's name is very misleading. Instead of being called CONFIG_SND_DEBUG, it should be called CONFIG_SND_SAFETY_CHECKS or something like that.
Very true. Actually this option has multiple implicit meanings. It also enables some debug things, of course, too.
IMO, distributions are completely justified in turning off any symbol which is named (and described in the help text!) as being used for debugging only.
Heh, I don't blame distros but just recommend to turn it on :)
Anyway, since 3.10, safety checks with snd_BUG_ON() have been already enabled even without CONFIG_SND_DEBUG. But this won't give an error message via WARN() but simply returns the error when built CONFIG_SND_DEBUG, so it won't help for debugging much, as expected.
And, Alan, please don't work on a patch to correct Kconfig text yet. I see on my crystalball that you'd send a patch in this very minute ;)
Okay, I'll try to restrain myself. :-)
We'll need to work on the debug print things, so the whole kconfig options need revisited. Let's sort out what to be changed for messages, split the sanity check codes and debug codes, and then go on fixing/improving Kconfig appropriately.
Given the amount of detailed attention that will be needed for fixing up all those debug messages, I'd prefer to ignore the whole issue for now. My intention is to concentrate just on the sound/usb drivers, where I actually have some idea of what the code is doing, and maybe also sound/core.
I'll go into more detail in a separate email that doesn't have all the extra people on the CC: list.
Alan Stern
participants (3)
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Alan Stern -
David Henningsson -
Takashi Iwai