[alsa-devel] Will there ever be emu20k1/x-fi support in Alsa?
I had to ask because oss4 has had emu20k1/x-fi support for a long time now. However, it has the obvious limitations of oss4 and also you cannot use usb microphones, so I can't use skype which I'd really like to do.
Any ideas?
On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 18:14:43 -0500 "Ted T. Logian" tedtheologian@gmail.com wrote:
I had to ask because oss4 has had emu20k1/x-fi support for a long time now. However, it has the obvious limitations of oss4 and also you cannot use usb microphones, so I can't use skype which I'd really like to do.
Any ideas?
Yes, just pay James Courtier-Dutton a lot of money to write a driver. If you're in the EMU or X-Fi camp, you should of moved on by now. Creative are providing NDA'd specs to the wrong person at ALSA. (See EMU 0202/0404, and now X-Fi support)
Don't bother contacting him either, it goes straight to /dev/null.
Bottom line, if one can't write a driver or don't have time, don't bother to NDA specifications okay? It just slows things down.
Furthermore Creative isn't going to pay someone to write a driver, so its not going to happen for a very long time, unless they decide to open the specs and stop the NDA junk.
Nobody with know-how has bothered to port the partially working oss4 driver to ALSA, so interest is quite low.
Dne Monday 06 of October 2008 03:59:27 Brendan Pike napsal(a):
Yes, just pay James Courtier-Dutton a lot of money to write a driver. If you're in the EMU or X-Fi camp, you should of moved on by now. Creative are providing NDA'd specs to the wrong person at ALSA. (See EMU 0202/0404, and now X-Fi support)
Don't bother contacting him either, it goes straight to /dev/null.
That was quite rough, but kind of true :( That was exactly the reason, that I gived up any efforts to improve E-MU PCI driver.
Bottom line, if one can't write a driver or don't have time, don't bother to NDA specifications okay? It just slows things down.
Definitely.
--- Ctirad
Well, I emailed his gmail address and that didn't bounce. Hopefully he'll check that one.
I actually emailed 3 of his email addresses, and the only one that bounced was the lucent one.
On Mon, 2008-10-06 at 08:39 +0200, Ctirad Fertr wrote:
Dne Monday 06 of October 2008 03:59:27 Brendan Pike napsal(a):
Yes, just pay James Courtier-Dutton a lot of money to write a driver. If you're in the EMU or X-Fi camp, you should of moved on by now. Creative are providing NDA'd specs to the wrong person at ALSA. (See EMU 0202/0404, and now X-Fi support)
Don't bother contacting him either, it goes straight to /dev/null.
That was quite rough, but kind of true :( That was exactly the reason, that I gived up any efforts to improve E-MU PCI driver.
Bottom line, if one can't write a driver or don't have time, don't bother to NDA specifications okay? It just slows things down.
Definitely.
Ctirad _______________________________________________ Alsa-devel mailing list Alsa-devel@alsa-project.org http://mailman.alsa-project.org/mailman/listinfo/alsa-devel
To say that this driver is partially working is an overstatement. It is partially working on very few supported cards, and some of them are supported by ALSA as well, if not better (Xtreme Audio PCI and Xtreme Audio PCI-E).
By the way, don't all X-Fi cards have some kind of HDA-compatible mode? If yes, why don't people just use that until Creative writes a driver and stop complaining?
2008/10/6 Brendan Pike spike@spykes.net:
Nobody with know-how has bothered to port the partially working oss4 driver to ALSA, so interest is quite low.
Supposedly this compatability mode exists, but how do you turn it on? Do you then just start using hda-intel afterward?
I also understand it's severely limited.
On Mon, 2008-10-06 at 10:35 +0200, Vedran Miletić wrote:
To say that this driver is partially working is an overstatement. It is partially working on very few supported cards, and some of them are supported by ALSA as well, if not better (Xtreme Audio PCI and Xtreme Audio PCI-E).
By the way, don't all X-Fi cards have some kind of HDA-compatible mode? If yes, why don't people just use that until Creative writes a driver and stop complaining?
2008/10/6 Brendan Pike spike@spykes.net:
Nobody with know-how has bothered to port the partially working oss4 driver to ALSA, so interest is quite low.
From what I recall James talking about it, you should go to Windows and switch the mode in Windows driver, and reboot. But I might be saying totally wrong, since I'm talking from what I remember. It was somewhere in the mailing list, I can't find it right now.
Driver for HDA Intel mode of Creative cards is in Takashi's sound-unstable-2.6 tree, it's called patch_ca0110.c - see here: http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/tiwai/sound-unstable-2.6.git;a=blo...
2008/10/6 Ted T. Logian tedtheologian@gmail.com:
Supposedly this compatability mode exists, but how do you turn it on? Do you then just start using hda-intel afterward?
I also understand it's severely limited.
On Mon, 2008-10-06 at 10:35 +0200, Vedran Miletić wrote:
To say that this driver is partially working is an overstatement. It is partially working on very few supported cards, and some of them are supported by ALSA as well, if not better (Xtreme Audio PCI and Xtreme Audio PCI-E).
By the way, don't all X-Fi cards have some kind of HDA-compatible mode? If yes, why don't people just use that until Creative writes a driver and stop complaining?
2008/10/6 Brendan Pike spike@spykes.net:
Nobody with know-how has bothered to port the partially working oss4 driver to ALSA, so interest is quite low.
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Isn't it a question of the license? I mean is it allowed just to port the OSS Code with the Creative Part to Alsa?
I had to ask because oss4 has had emu20k1/x-fi support for a long time now. However, it has the obvious limitations of oss4 and also you cannot use usb microphones, so I can't use skype which I'd really like to do.
From what I understand, they did not use creative code/license for the
oss4 support, so I wouldn't see why not.
On Mon, 2008-10-06 at 23:25 +0200, Sebastian Schneider wrote:
Isn't it a question of the license? I mean is it allowed just to port the OSS Code with the Creative Part to Alsa?
I had to ask because oss4 has had emu20k1/x-fi support for a long time now. However, it has the obvious limitations of oss4 and also you cannot use usb microphones, so I can't use skype which I'd really like to do.
That driver isn't too good unfortunately. No surround support, sample rate stuck at 96000Hz and is read-only (this makes apps that require explicit sample rate to fail to use sound), no pulse-audio compatibility (pulse-audio fails to load oss modules).
Ted T. Logian ?????:
From what I understand, they did not use creative code/license for the
oss4 support, so I wouldn't see why not.
On Mon, 2008-10-06 at 23:25 +0200, Sebastian Schneider wrote:
Isn't it a question of the license? I mean is it allowed just to port the OSS Code with the Creative Part to Alsa?
I had to ask because oss4 has had emu20k1/x-fi support for a long time now. However, it has the obvious limitations of oss4 and also you cannot use usb microphones, so I can't use skype which I'd really like to do.
Alsa-devel mailing list Alsa-devel@alsa-project.org http://mailman.alsa-project.org/mailman/listinfo/alsa-devel
Yes, but it is better than nothing, and perhaps some of that is a limitation of oss4:).
On Tue, 2008-10-07 at 10:41 +0400, The Source wrote:
That driver isn't too good unfortunately. No surround support, sample rate stuck at 96000Hz and is read-only (this makes apps that require explicit sample rate to fail to use sound), no pulse-audio compatibility (pulse-audio fails to load oss modules).
Ted T. Logian ?????:
From what I understand, they did not use creative code/license for the
oss4 support, so I wouldn't see why not.
On Mon, 2008-10-06 at 23:25 +0200, Sebastian Schneider wrote:
Isn't it a question of the license? I mean is it allowed just to port the OSS Code with the Creative Part to Alsa?
I had to ask because oss4 has had emu20k1/x-fi support for a long time now. However, it has the obvious limitations of oss4 and also you cannot use usb microphones, so I can't use skype which I'd really like to do.
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On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 19:46:22 -0500 "Ted T. Logian" tedtheologian@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, but it is better than nothing, and perhaps some of that is a limitation of oss4:).
On Tue, 2008-10-07 at 10:41 +0400, The Source wrote:
That driver isn't too good unfortunately. No surround support, sample rate stuck at 96000Hz and is read-only (this makes apps that require explicit sample rate to fail to use sound), no pulse-audio compatibility (pulse-audio fails to load oss modules).
Ted T. Logian ?????:
From what I understand, they did not use creative code/license for the
oss4 support, so I wouldn't see why not.
On Mon, 2008-10-06 at 23:25 +0200, Sebastian Schneider wrote:
Isn't it a question of the license? I mean is it allowed just to port the OSS Code with the Creative Part to Alsa?
I had to ask because oss4 has had emu20k1/x-fi support for a long time now. However, it has the obvious limitations of oss4 and also you cannot use usb microphones, so I can't use skype which I'd really like to do.
Porting the oss4 driver over to ALSA would be a start until someone can get hold of the datasheets to make it a proper driver with hardware mixing and all. Anyone up to the task that we can donate money to buy hardware or actual hardware to?
The newer PCIe EMU20K2 X-Fi Titaniums are the ones that are supposed to have the intel-hda-audio backwards compatibility, but the older X-Fi's based on the EMU20K1 do not. I guess this compatibility is a Vista requirement so it appears on the new metal cladded X-Fi models.
Then there's the "fake" X-Fi's based on the CA0106 that are supported by ALSA already. Lets not confuse those.
But how to get the specs? I doubt creative will give them freely to us. Unless that guy, who holds them, gives them away.
Brendan Pike ?????:
On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 19:46:22 -0500 "Ted T. Logian" tedtheologian@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, but it is better than nothing, and perhaps some of that is a limitation of oss4:).
On Tue, 2008-10-07 at 10:41 +0400, The Source wrote:
That driver isn't too good unfortunately. No surround support, sample rate stuck at 96000Hz and is read-only (this makes apps that require explicit sample rate to fail to use sound), no pulse-audio compatibility (pulse-audio fails to load oss modules).
Ted T. Logian ?????:
From what I understand, they did not use creative code/license for the
oss4 support, so I wouldn't see why not.
On Mon, 2008-10-06 at 23:25 +0200, Sebastian Schneider wrote:
Isn't it a question of the license? I mean is it allowed just to port the OSS Code with the Creative Part to Alsa?
I had to ask because oss4 has had emu20k1/x-fi support for a long time now. However, it has the obvious limitations of oss4 and also you cannot use usb microphones, so I can't use skype which I'd really like to do.
Porting the oss4 driver over to ALSA would be a start until someone can get hold of the datasheets to make it a proper driver with hardware mixing and all. Anyone up to the task that we can donate money to buy hardware or actual hardware to?
The newer PCIe EMU20K2 X-Fi Titaniums are the ones that are supposed to have the intel-hda-audio backwards compatibility, but the older X-Fi's based on the EMU20K1 do not. I guess this compatibility is a Vista requirement so it appears on the new metal cladded X-Fi models.
Then there's the "fake" X-Fi's based on the CA0106 that are supported by ALSA already. Lets not confuse those. _______________________________________________ Alsa-devel mailing list Alsa-devel@alsa-project.org http://mailman.alsa-project.org/mailman/listinfo/alsa-devel
At Tue, 07 Oct 2008 19:46:22 -0500, Ted T. Logian wrote:
Yes, but it is better than nothing, and perhaps some of that is a limitation of oss4:).
Just looking at their code, and I can conclude it's a half-baked driver, indeed. Fixed rate, no full duplex, no multi playback, no multi channel, etc, etc.
OTOH, it's pretty easy to port right now because of its shortness. More comprehensive be more longer codes.
OK, if the code is that long, I'll try to port as experimental. It's always good to have a reference at the beginning. Maybe it'll take one or two days... Will inform you when it's ready.
Note that I have neither XFi hardware nor datasheet, so someone brave has to test it :)
Takashi
On Tue, 2008-10-07 at 10:41 +0400, The Source wrote:
That driver isn't too good unfortunately. No surround support, sample rate stuck at 96000Hz and is read-only (this makes apps that require explicit sample rate to fail to use sound), no pulse-audio compatibility (pulse-audio fails to load oss modules).
Ted T. Logian ?????:
From what I understand, they did not use creative code/license for the
oss4 support, so I wouldn't see why not.
On Mon, 2008-10-06 at 23:25 +0200, Sebastian Schneider wrote:
Isn't it a question of the license? I mean is it allowed just to port the OSS Code with the Creative Part to Alsa?
I had to ask because oss4 has had emu20k1/x-fi support for a long time now. However, it has the obvious limitations of oss4 and also you cannot use usb microphones, so I can't use skype which I'd really like to do.
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About multi playback: look at the latest codes from their mercurial repo - vmix with 4 PCMs was restored there.
Takashi Iwai ?????:
At Tue, 07 Oct 2008 19:46:22 -0500, Ted T. Logian wrote:
Yes, but it is better than nothing, and perhaps some of that is a limitation of oss4:).
Just looking at their code, and I can conclude it's a half-baked driver, indeed. Fixed rate, no full duplex, no multi playback, no multi channel, etc, etc.
OTOH, it's pretty easy to port right now because of its shortness. More comprehensive be more longer codes.
OK, if the code is that long, I'll try to port as experimental. It's always good to have a reference at the beginning. Maybe it'll take one or two days... Will inform you when it's ready.
Note that I have neither XFi hardware nor datasheet, so someone brave has to test it :)
Takashi
On Tue, 2008-10-07 at 10:41 +0400, The Source wrote:
That driver isn't too good unfortunately. No surround support, sample rate stuck at 96000Hz and is read-only (this makes apps that require explicit sample rate to fail to use sound), no pulse-audio compatibility (pulse-audio fails to load oss modules).
Ted T. Logian ?????:
From what I understand, they did not use creative code/license for the
oss4 support, so I wouldn't see why not.
On Mon, 2008-10-06 at 23:25 +0200, Sebastian Schneider wrote:
Isn't it a question of the license? I mean is it allowed just to port the OSS Code with the Creative Part to Alsa?
I had to ask because oss4 has had emu20k1/x-fi support for a long time now. However, it has the obvious limitations of oss4 and also you cannot use usb microphones, so I can't use skype which I'd really like to do.
Alsa-devel mailing list Alsa-devel@alsa-project.org http://mailman.alsa-project.org/mailman/listinfo/alsa-devel
Alsa-devel mailing list Alsa-devel@alsa-project.org http://mailman.alsa-project.org/mailman/listinfo/alsa-devel
Alsa-devel mailing list Alsa-devel@alsa-project.org http://mailman.alsa-project.org/mailman/listinfo/alsa-devel
At Thu, 09 Oct 2008 14:06:52 +0400, The Source wrote:
[Could you please stop top-posting?]
About multi playback: look at the latest codes from their mercurial repo
- vmix with 4 PCMs was restored there.
And we have dmix. My point is about the hardware multi-playback support.
Takashi
Takashi Iwai ?????:
At Tue, 07 Oct 2008 19:46:22 -0500, Ted T. Logian wrote:
Yes, but it is better than nothing, and perhaps some of that is a limitation of oss4:).
Just looking at their code, and I can conclude it's a half-baked driver, indeed. Fixed rate, no full duplex, no multi playback, no multi channel, etc, etc.
OTOH, it's pretty easy to port right now because of its shortness. More comprehensive be more longer codes.
OK, if the code is that long, I'll try to port as experimental. It's always good to have a reference at the beginning. Maybe it'll take one or two days... Will inform you when it's ready.
Note that I have neither XFi hardware nor datasheet, so someone brave has to test it :)
Takashi
On Tue, 2008-10-07 at 10:41 +0400, The Source wrote:
That driver isn't too good unfortunately. No surround support, sample rate stuck at 96000Hz and is read-only (this makes apps that require explicit sample rate to fail to use sound), no pulse-audio compatibility (pulse-audio fails to load oss modules).
Ted T. Logian ?????:
From what I understand, they did not use creative code/license for the
oss4 support, so I wouldn't see why not.
On Mon, 2008-10-06 at 23:25 +0200, Sebastian Schneider wrote:
Isn't it a question of the license? I mean is it allowed just to port the OSS Code with the Creative Part to Alsa?
> I had to ask because oss4 has had emu20k1/x-fi support for a long time > now. However, it has the obvious limitations of oss4 and also you > cannot use usb microphones, so I can't use skype which I'd really like > to do. > > >
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Myself and The source(if I might volunteer him) would likely to be happy to test. I certainly would.
I just want to be able to use my usb mic AND My soundcard at the same time. oss4 does not support usb mic recording on linux.
There's also oss4 problems with myth, etc. I'm really anxious to get back to alsa.
On Thu, 2008-10-09 at 12:00 +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote:
At Tue, 07 Oct 2008 19:46:22 -0500, Ted T. Logian wrote:
Yes, but it is better than nothing, and perhaps some of that is a limitation of oss4:).
Just looking at their code, and I can conclude it's a half-baked driver, indeed. Fixed rate, no full duplex, no multi playback, no multi channel, etc, etc.
OTOH, it's pretty easy to port right now because of its shortness. More comprehensive be more longer codes.
OK, if the code is that long, I'll try to port as experimental. It's always good to have a reference at the beginning. Maybe it'll take one or two days... Will inform you when it's ready.
Note that I have neither XFi hardware nor datasheet, so someone brave has to test it :)
Takashi
On Tue, 2008-10-07 at 10:41 +0400, The Source wrote:
That driver isn't too good unfortunately. No surround support, sample rate stuck at 96000Hz and is read-only (this makes apps that require explicit sample rate to fail to use sound), no pulse-audio compatibility (pulse-audio fails to load oss modules).
Ted T. Logian ?????:
From what I understand, they did not use creative code/license for the
oss4 support, so I wouldn't see why not.
On Mon, 2008-10-06 at 23:25 +0200, Sebastian Schneider wrote:
Isn't it a question of the license? I mean is it allowed just to port the OSS Code with the Creative Part to Alsa?
I had to ask because oss4 has had emu20k1/x-fi support for a long time now. However, it has the obvious limitations of oss4 and also you cannot use usb microphones, so I can't use skype which I'd really like to do.
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participants (7)
-
Brendan Pike -
Ctirad Fertr -
Sebastian Schneider -
Takashi Iwai -
Ted T. Logian -
The Source -
Vedran Miletić