[alsa-devel] snd-hdsp driver error?

Takashi Iwai tiwai at suse.de
Sun Nov 8 11:34:15 CET 2009


At Sat, 7 Nov 2009 07:12:21 +0800,
Raymond Yau wrote:
> 
> AFAIK , alsa-lib use the driver name to find the name of corresponding
> conf file from /usr/share/alsa/cards/aliases.conf
> In your case , H-DSP.conf does not exist and there is no aliases in
> /usr/share/alsa/cards/aliases.conf
> 
> You have to ask Takashi or Jaroslav to fix this issue for your card
> 
> open("/usr/share/alsa/cards/aliases.conf", O_RDONLY) = 3
> 
> 
> access("/usr/share/alsa/cards/H-DSP.conf", R_OK) = -1 ENOENT (No such
> file or directory)
> open("/dev/snd/controlC1", O_RDONLY)    = 3
> close(3)                                = 0
> 
> 
> write(2, "ALSA lib confmisc.c:1286:(snd_fu"..., 42ALSA lib
> confmisc.c:1286:(snd_func_refer) ) = 42
> write(2, "Unable to find definition 'cards"..., 58Unable to find
> definition 'cards.H-DSP.pcm.front.0:CARD=0') = 58
> write(2, "\n", 1

Finally I can catch up pending posts...

For hdsp, there is no clear definition for "front" or any surround
outputs due to the nature of the hardware.  So, getting an error isn't
a bug in this case.

PA should fall back into "hw" if all such pre-defined PCMs are not
available.  So, this is no critical situation for PA.
The problem is somewhere else.


Takashi

> 
> 2009/11/7 Lars Zobbe <fedesensfar at gmail.com>
> 
> > It is a clean install.
> > lars at lars-desktop:~$ lsb_release -a && uname -a
> > No LSB modules are available.
> > Distributor ID:    Ubuntu
> > Description:    Ubuntu 9.10
> > Release:    9.10
> > Codename:    karmic
> > Linux lars-desktop 2.6.31-14-generic #48-Ubuntu SMP Fri Oct 16 14:05:01 UTC
> > 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux
> >
> > It didn't work with pulseaudio in any previos version (of ubuntu or any
> > other distro I've tried) either.
> > And the standard answer from people "out there" is "forget about pulse it
> > doesn't work with the HDSP" f.x. this guy
> > http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=7578331&postcount=10
> > And that's why I contacted pulseaudio developers first when I found out the
> > it was because snd_hdsp didn't load with the preferred udev but only with
> > module-detect (se my first post). They said that I should inform Alsa
> > developers as there seems to be a problem with the alsa driver.
> >
> > I've attached the strace output.
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Lars.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 2:53 AM, Raymond Yau <superquad.vortex2 at gmail.com>wrote:
> >
> >> Is it a clean install of Ubuntu 9.10 or upgrade from previous Ubuntu ?
> >>
> >> you may need to find out why aplay -v -Dfront 32bit.wav fail ?
> >>
> >> strace aplay -v -Dfront 32bit.wav
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> !!Linux Distribution
> >>
> >> !!------------------
> >>
> >> Ubuntu 9.10 \n \l DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu 9.10"
> >>
> >> !!Sound Servers on this system
> >> !!----------------------------
> >>
> >> Pulseaudio:
> >>       Installed - Yes (/usr/bin/pulseaudio)
> >>
> >>
> >>       Running - Yes
> >>
> >> ESound Daemon:
> >>       Installed - Yes (/usr/bin/esd)
> >>       Running - No
> >>
> >> Jack:
> >>       Installed - Yes (/usr/bin/jackd)
> >>       Running - No
> >>
> >>
> >> !!ALSA configuration files
> >>
> >>
> >> !!------------------------
> >>
> >> !!User specific config file (~/.asoundrc)
> >>
> >> pcm.!default {
> >>     type plug
> >>     slave { pcm "jack" }
> >> }
> >>
> >> pcm.jack {
> >>     type jack
> >>     playback_ports {
> >>
> >>         0 alsa_pcm:playback_1
> >>
> >>         1 alsa_pcm:playback_2
> >>     }
> >>     capture_ports {
> >>         0 alsa_pcm:capture_1
> >>         1 alsa_pcm:capture_2
> >>     }
> >> }
> >>
> >> ctl.mixer0 {
> >>     type hw
> >>     card 0
> >> }
> >>
> >>
> >> lars at lars-desktop:~$ aplay -v -Dfront:0 32bit.wav
> >> ALSA lib confmisc.c:1286:(snd_func_refer) Unable to find definition
> >> 'cards.H-DSP.pcm.front.0:CARD=0'
> >> ALSA lib conf.c:3513:(_snd_config_evaluate) function snd_func_refer
> >> returned error: No such file or directory
> >> ALSA lib conf.c:3985:(snd_config_expand) Evaluate error: No such file or
> >> directory
> >> ALSA lib pcm.c:2211:(snd_pcm_open_noupdate) Unknown PCM front:0
> >> aplay: main:608: audio open error: No such file or directory
> >>
> >>
> >> Did PA developer tell you not to load oss module ?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> D: alsa-util.c: Checking for subset analog-mono (hw:%f)
> >> D: alsa-util.c: Trying hw:0 with SND_PCM_NO_AUTO_FORMAT ...
> >> D: alsa-util.c: Managed to open hw:0
> >> D: alsa-util.c: snd_pcm_hw_params_set_access() failed: Invalid argument
> >> D: alsa-util.c: Trying hw:0 without SND_PCM_NO_AUTO_FORMAT ...
> >> D: alsa-util.c: Managed to open hw:0
> >> D: alsa-util.c: snd_pcm_hw_params_set_access() failed: Invalid argument
> >> D: alsa-util.c: Trying plug:hw:0 with SND_PCM_NO_AUTO_FORMAT ...
> >> D: alsa-util.c: Managed to open plug:hw:0
> >> D: alsa-util.c: snd_pcm_hw_params_set_format(Signed 16 bit Little Endian)
> >> failed: Invalid argument
> >> D: alsa-util.c: snd_pcm_hw_params_set_format(Signed 16 bit Big Endian)
> >> failed: Invalid argument
> >> D: alsa-util.c: snd_pcm_hw_params_set_format(Float 32 bit Little Endian)
> >> failed: Invalid argument
> >> D: alsa-util.c: snd_pcm_hw_params_set_format(Float 32 bit Big Endian)
> >> failed: Invalid argument
> >> D: alsa-util.c: snd_pcm_hw_params_set_channels(1) failed: Invalid argument
> >> D: alsa-util.c: Trying plug:hw:0 without SND_PCM_NO_AUTO_FORMAT ...
> >> D: alsa-util.c: Managed to open plug:hw:0
> >> D: alsa-util.c: snd_pcm_hw_params_set_channels(1) failed: Invalid argument
> >> I: alsa-util.c: Failed to set hardware parameters on plug:hw:0: Invalid
> >> argument
> >> D: alsa-util.c: Trying hw:0 as last resort...
> >> D: alsa-util.c: Trying hw:0 with SND_PCM_NO_AUTO_FORMAT ...
> >> D: alsa-util.c: Managed to open hw:0
> >> D: alsa-util.c: snd_pcm_hw_params_set_access() failed: Invalid argument
> >> D: alsa-util.c: Trying hw:0 without SND_PCM_NO_AUTO_FORMAT ...
> >> D: alsa-util.c: Managed to open hw:0
> >> D: alsa-util.c: snd_pcm_hw_params_set_access() failed: Invalid argument
> >> D: alsa-util.c: Trying plug:hw:0 with SND_PCM_NO_AUTO_FORMAT ...
> >> D: alsa-util.c: Managed to open plug:hw:0
> >> D: alsa-util.c: snd_pcm_hw_params_set_format(Signed 16 bit Little Endian)
> >> failed: Invalid argument
> >> D: alsa-util.c: snd_pcm_hw_params_set_format(Signed 16 bit Big Endian)
> >> failed: Invalid argument
> >> D: alsa-util.c: snd_pcm_hw_params_set_format(Float 32 bit Little Endian)
> >> failed: Invalid argument
> >> D: alsa-util.c: snd_pcm_hw_params_set_format(Float 32 bit Big Endian)
> >> failed: Invalid argument
> >> D: alsa-util.c: Maximum hw buffer size is 371 ms
> >> I: (alsa-lib)pcm_hw.c: SNDRV_PCM_IOCTL_HW_PARAMS failed
> >> I: (alsa-lib)pcm_hw.c: SNDRV_PCM_IOCTL_HW_PARAMS failed
> >> I: (alsa-lib)pcm_hw.c: SNDRV_PCM_IOCTL_HW_PARAMS failed
> >> I: (alsa-lib)pcm_hw.c: SNDRV_PCM_IOCTL_HW_PARAMS failed
> >> D: alsa-util.c: Set neither period nor buffer size.
> >> I: (alsa-lib)pcm_hw.c: SNDRV_PCM_IOCTL_HW_PARAMS failed
> >> I: alsa-util.c: snd_pcm_hw_params failed: Device or resource busy
> >> D: alsa-util.c: Trying plug:hw:0 without SND_PCM_NO_AUTO_FORMAT ...
> >> D: alsa-util.c: Managed to open plug:hw:0
> >> D: alsa-util.c: Maximum hw buffer size is 371 ms
> >> I: (alsa-lib)pcm_hw.c: SNDRV_PCM_IOCTL_HW_PARAMS failed
> >> I: (alsa-lib)pcm_hw.c: SNDRV_PCM_IOCTL_HW_PARAMS failed
> >> I: (alsa-lib)pcm_hw.c: SNDRV_PCM_IOCTL_HW_PARAMS failed
> >> I: (alsa-lib)pcm_hw.c: SNDRV_PCM_IOCTL_HW_PARAMS failed
> >> D: alsa-util.c: Set neither period nor buffer size.
> >> I: (alsa-lib)pcm_hw.c: SNDRV_PCM_IOCTL_HW_PARAMS failed
> >> I: alsa-util.c: snd_pcm_hw_params failed: Device or resource busy
> >> I: alsa-util.c: Failed to set hardware parameters on plug:hw:0: Device or
> >> resource busy
> >> E: module.c: Failed to load  module "module-alsa-source" (argument:
> >> "device_id=0"): initialization failed.
> >> W: module.c: module-oss is deprecated: Please use module-alsa-card instead
> >> of module-oss!
> >> D: oss-util.c: capabilities: MMAP REALTIME TRIGGER
> >> I: module-oss.c: Device opened in O_RDONLY mode.
> >> D: oss-util.c: Asking for 4 fragments of size 512 (requested 880)
> >> E: oss-util.c: SNDCTL_DSP_SETFMT: Device or resource busy
> >> E: module.c: Failed to load  module "module-oss" (argument:
> >> "device=/dev/dsp"): initialization failed.
> >> W: module-detect.c: failed to detect any sound hardware.
> >>
> >>
> >> 2009/11/6 Lars Zobbe <fedesensfar at gmail.com>
> >>
> >> Sorry. I didn't realise that it was a bash script. Here is the link to my
> >>> alsa-info
> >>>
> >>> http://www.alsa-project.org/db/?f=d3728557be71067e2ed0920747118ae7efff2829
> >>>
> >>> Thanks again.
> >>> Lars.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 5:29 AM, Raymond Yau <superquad.vortex2 at gmail.com
> >>> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Please provide the full pulseaudio log and output of alsa-info.sh
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.pulseaudio.org/wiki/Troubleshooting
> >>>>
> >>>> pulseaudio -k; pulseaudio -vvv
> >>>>
> >>>> and
> >>>>
> >>>> aplay -v -Dfront:0 32bit.wav
> >>>>
> >>>> aplay -v -M -Dfront:0 32bit.wav
> >>>>
> >>>> aplay -v -Dplughw:0 any.wav
> >>>>
> >>>> aplay -v -M -Dplughw:0 any.wav
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 2009/11/4 Lars Zobbe <fedesensfar at gmail.com>
> >>>>
> >>>> > Hi Raymond.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > I so sorry Raymond. But I'm not sure what to do with this info. Is
> >>>> there
> >>>> > something more I have to tell you? Is there anything I can do to make
> >>>> > pulseaudio able to detect via udev? Can I copy-paste that bit of code
> >>>> you
> >>>> > sent me somewhere?
> >>>> > Please tell me if there's more you need to know.
> >>>> > Greetings.
> >>>> > Lars.
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> > On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 7:48 AM, Raymond Yau <
> >>>> superquad.vortex2 at gmail.com>wrote:
> >>>> >
> >>>> >> I guess route plugin used by RME96*.conf does not support mmap when
> >>>> there
> >>>> >> is
> >>>> >> channel conversion since minimum channels supported by hdsp is 14
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> static struct snd_pcm_hardware snd_hdsp_playback_subinfo =
> >>>> >> {
> >>>> >>    .info = (SNDRV_PCM_INFO_MMAP |
> >>>> >>                 SNDRV_PCM_INFO_MMAP_VALID |
> >>>> >>                 SNDRV_PCM_INFO_NONINTERLEAVED |
> >>>> >>                 SNDRV_PCM_INFO_SYNC_START |
> >>>> >>                 SNDRV_PCM_INFO_DOUBLE),
> >>>> >> #ifdef SNDRV_BIG_ENDIAN
> >>>> >>    .formats = SNDRV_PCM_FMTBIT_S32_BE,
> >>>> >> #else
> >>>> >>    .formats = SNDRV_PCM_FMTBIT_S32_LE,
> >>>> >> #endif
> >>>> >>    .rates = (SNDRV_PCM_RATE_32000 |
> >>>> >>                 SNDRV_PCM_RATE_44100 |
> >>>> >>                 SNDRV_PCM_RATE_48000 |
> >>>> >>                 SNDRV_PCM_RATE_64000 |
> >>>> >>                 SNDRV_PCM_RATE_88200 |
> >>>> >>                 SNDRV_PCM_RATE_96000),
> >>>> >>    .rate_min = 32000,
> >>>> >>    .rate_max = 96000,
> >>>> >>    .channels_min = 14,
> >>>> >>    .channels_max = HDSP_MAX_CHANNELS,
> >>>> >>    .buffer_bytes_max = HDSP_CHANNEL_BUFFER_BYTES * HDSP_MAX_CHANNELS,
> >>>> >>    .period_bytes_min = (64 * 4) * 10,
> >>>> >>    .period_bytes_max = (8192 * 4) * HDSP_MAX_CHANNELS,
> >>>> >>    .periods_min = 2,
> >>>> >>    .periods_max = 2,
> >>>> >>    .fifo_size = 0
> >>>> >> };
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> 2009/11/2 Lars Zobbe <fedesensfar at gmail.com>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> > Hi.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Talking to one of the pulseaudio developers (*Colin Guthrie*) about
> >>>> a
> >>>> >> > problem with pulseaudio loading modules and my sound card (RME HDSP
> >>>> >> 9632),
> >>>> >> > I
> >>>> >> > was adviced to inform you about the problem.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > I'm on ubuntu 9.10, 64bit, kernel 2.6.31 with an amd64 x2 3800+
> >>>> >> processor.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Symptoms are:
> >>>> >> > Can only make pulseaudio load modules with the deprecated
> >>>> load-module
> >>>> >> > module-detect command, module-udev-detect doesn't detect anything
> >>>> (no
> >>>> >> sound
> >>>> >> > - only null sink output in padevchooser).
> >>>> >> > I get terrible stuttering.
> >>>> >> > I can remove pulseaudio and make things work, more or less.
> >>>> However,
> >>>> >> that
> >>>> >> > leaves me without software mixing and apps fighting for the rights
> >>>> to
> >>>> >> make
> >>>> >> > sound. And more inconveniences (fx. no volume-control).
> >>>> >> > I can play sound from audacity without stuttering by choosing the
> >>>> >> cardname
> >>>> >> > directly in output HDSP, not ALSA, not pulseaudio.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > When trying to run alsa-info.sh I get a lot of "not found" errors.
> >>>> So
> >>>> >> > you'll
> >>>> >> > get some manual info (they might have moved som files around in
> >>>> ubuntu
> >>>> >> > 9.10).
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > This is part of my syslog during a boot. (I did the formatting to
> >>>> bold).
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Nov  2 10:57:32 lars-desktop pulseaudio[1524]: module.c:
> >>>> module-detect
> >>>> >> is
> >>>> >> > deprecated: Please use module-udev-detect instead of module-detect!
> >>>> >> > Nov  2 10:57:37 lars-desktop pulseaudio[1524]: ratelimit.c: 27
> >>>> events
> >>>> >> > suppressed
> >>>> >> > Nov  2 10:57:39 lars-desktop pulseaudio[1612]: module.c:
> >>>> module-detect
> >>>> >> is
> >>>> >> > deprecated: Please use module-udev-detect instead of module-detect!
> >>>> >> > Nov  2 10:57:44 lars-desktop pulseaudio[1612]: ratelimit.c: 23
> >>>> events
> >>>> >> > suppressed
> >>>> >> > Nov  2 10:57:44 lars-desktop pulseaudio[1612]: alsa-sink.c: ALSA
> >>>> woke us
> >>>> >> up
> >>>> >> > to write new data to the device, but there was actually nothing to
> >>>> >> write!
> >>>> >> > Nov  2 10:57:44 lars-desktop pulseaudio[1612]: alsa-sink.c: *Most
> >>>> likely
> >>>> >> > this is a bug in the ALSA driver 'snd_hdsp'. Please report this
> >>>> issue to
> >>>> >> > the
> >>>> >> > ALSA developers.*
> >>>> >> > Nov  2 10:57:44 lars-desktop pulseaudio[1612]: alsa-sink.c: We were
> >>>> >> woken
> >>>> >> > up
> >>>> >> > with POLLOUT set -- however a subsequent snd_pcm_avail() returned 0
> >>>> or
> >>>> >> > another value < min_avail.
> >>>> >> > Nov  2 10:57:49 lars-desktop pulseaudio[1612]: ratelimit.c: 99
> >>>> events
> >>>> >> > suppressed
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Later if I try to play audio I get terrible skipping or stuttering
> >>>> and
> >>>> >> my
> >>>> >> > syslog (in less than a minute) writes:
> >>>> >> > Nov  2 11:55:16 lars-desktop pulseaudio[1612]: ratelimit.c: 16
> >>>> events
> >>>> >> > suppressed
> >>>> >> > Nov  2 11:55:21 lars-desktop pulseaudio[1612]: ratelimit.c: 34
> >>>> events
> >>>> >> > suppressed
> >>>> >> > Nov  2 11:55:26 lars-desktop pulseaudio[1612]: ratelimit.c: 70
> >>>> events
> >>>> >> > suppressed
> >>>> >> > Nov  2 11:55:31 lars-desktop pulseaudio[1612]: ratelimit.c: 29
> >>>> events
> >>>> >> > suppressed
> >>>> >> > Nov  2 11:55:36 lars-desktop pulseaudio[1612]: ratelimit.c: 43
> >>>> events
> >>>> >> > suppressed
> >>>> >> > Nov  2 11:55:41 lars-desktop pulseaudio[1612]: ratelimit.c: 161
> >>>> events
> >>>> >> > suppressed
> >>>> >> > Nov  2 11:55:46 lars-desktop pulseaudio[1612]: ratelimit.c: 28
> >>>> events
> >>>> >> > suppressed
> >>>> >> > Nov  2 11:55:51 lars-desktop pulseaudio[1612]: ratelimit.c: 18
> >>>> events
> >>>> >> > suppressed
> >>>> >> > Nov  2 11:55:56 lars-desktop pulseaudio[1612]: ratelimit.c: 16
> >>>> events
> >>>> >> > suppressed
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Here's the relevant part (concerning my sound card) of lspci -vvv
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > 02:09.0 Multimedia audio controller: Xilinx Corporation RME
> >>>> Hammerfall
> >>>> >> DSP
> >>>> >> > (rev 9a)
> >>>> >> >    Control: I/O- Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop-
> >>>> ParErr-
> >>>> >> > Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- DisINTx-
> >>>> >> >    Status: Cap- 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B- ParErr- DEVSEL=medium >TAbort-
> >>>> >> > <TAbort- <MAbort- >SERR- <PERR- INTx-
> >>>> >> >    Latency: 255
> >>>> >> >    Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 19
> >>>> >> >    Region 0: Memory at fdff0000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable)
> >>>> [size=64K]
> >>>> >> >    Kernel driver in use: RME Hammerfall DSP
> >>>> >> >    Kernel modules: snd-hdsp
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > And:
> >>>> >> > lars at lars-desktop:~$ aplay -l
> >>>> >> > **** List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices ****
> >>>> >> > card 0: DSP [Hammerfall DSP], device 0: RME Hammerfall HDSP 9632
> >>>> [RME
> >>>> >> > Hammerfall HDSP 9632]
> >>>> >> >  Subdevices: 1/1
> >>>> >> >  Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > lars at lars-desktop:~$ cat /proc/asound/version
> >>>> >> > Advanced Linux Sound Architecture Driver Version 1.0.21.
> >>>> >> > Compiled on Oct 15 2009 for kernel 2.6.31-14-generic (SMP).
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > lars at lars-desktop:~$ cat /proc/asound/cards
> >>>> >> >  0 [DSP            ]: H-DSP - Hammerfall DSP
> >>>> >> >                      RME Hammerfall HDSP 9632 at 0xfdff0000, irq 19
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > lars at lars-desktop:~$ cat /proc/asound/modules
> >>>> >> >  0 snd_hdsp
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > I don't have .asound.conf files.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > lars at lars-desktop:~$ hdsploader
> >>>> >> > hdsploader - firmware loader for RME Hammerfall DSP cards
> >>>> >> > Looking for HDSP + Multiface or Digiface cards :
> >>>> >> > Card 0 : RME Hammerfall HDSP 9632 at 0xfdff0000, irq 19
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > And of course. My computer makes no sound if I don't load the
> >>>> hdspmixer
> >>>> >> at
> >>>> >> > startup. I guess that's just normal for this card though.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Please let me know, if you need more info. I really hope you can
> >>>> help
> >>>> >> out
> >>>> >> > here. And that this might help you to.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Thanks for the great work you do. Greetings.
> >>>> >> > Lars Zobbe.
> >>>> >> > _______________________________________________
> >>>> >> > Alsa-devel mailing list
> >>>> >> > Alsa-devel at alsa-project.org
> >>>> >> > http://mailman.alsa-project.org/mailman/listinfo/alsa-devel
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> _______________________________________________
> >>>> >> Alsa-devel mailing list
> >>>> >> Alsa-devel at alsa-project.org
> >>>> >> http://mailman.alsa-project.org/mailman/listinfo/alsa-devel
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Alsa-devel mailing list
> >>>> Alsa-devel at alsa-project.org
> >>>> http://mailman.alsa-project.org/mailman/listinfo/alsa-devel
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Alsa-devel mailing list
> Alsa-devel at alsa-project.org
> http://mailman.alsa-project.org/mailman/listinfo/alsa-devel
> 


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